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 237.4 #1422 (DL Qual #962

Jul 11, 2012 3:33 PM  Disneyland Talk Land
Somewhat random thought.. Since I will be working on my thesis/thesis project this year, I thought I would get a jump start on potential topics to submit. I wonder if there is someway I can incorporate Disney. Maybe Disneyland and depression? How "the happiest place on Earth" can have a positive psychological effect.

Disneyland can have a positive effect on people because Disney does their best to create a welcoming place where the CMs treat each person special. This gets passed on to people, and the people are friendlier than at most other places. Also, it brings people back to their childhood. It might not be Disneyland itself that gives the guests a positive feeling - it could be the fact that they're going back to a place that their parents would bring them when they were kids, and all those memories they had with the ones they love come together again when they go to Disneyland. Also, churros and Dole Whip. - LaTruce  2261.3 #56 3:39PM
So Disneyland can create a sense of euphoria, allowing people to temporarily escape to a magical and wondrous place where they can focus on positive thoughts.. This sounds like it could lead to something else all together for those who frequent the parks excessively. Disney addiction? - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 3:46PM
Btw, thank you for your comment. πŸ˜„ - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 3:47PM
Are you diagnosing me? - LaTruce  2261.3 #56 3:53PM
I couldn't agree with your comment more LaTruce... And of course the Dole Whip.. - Goofdog  170.4 #2312 3:58PM
Of course not. But feel free to have a seat on the porch to discuss this in more detail. Lol! - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 4:01PM
LaTruce's comments reminds friend's post modern urban anthro class that took that fun out of Disneyland for her - (from what I remember, several years ago) PoMo revealed the facade of the happiest place on earth where in fact everyone is able to enjoy it...the practices being very big brother which makes assumptions about other places and cultures that are very Western-centric - same criticisms are made about Vegas. Google "post modernism disneyland" and you'll find plenty to read. - onezerohero  163.8 #2420 4:07PM
"How do YOU feel about that?" - LaTruce  2261.3 #56 4:09PM
Me? PoMo Sh'MoMo!? Psh! - onezerohero  163.8 #2420 4:13PM
Onezerohero, this will get me started on something completely different. But I will definitely google it because that sparks my interest! But this will lead me to the negative effects of Disney.. How it can contribute to lowering the self esteem of girls. The fairy tales. Inaccurate portrayals of some cultural backgrounds. Not representing everyone. Aww no, I can't go there. Lol - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 4:28PM
Yeah, don't research PoMo Disneyland further! - onezerohero  163.8 #2420 4:33PM
Lol but now I'm curious! - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 5:29PM
Ha ha! But... but... ignorance is bliss? O_O Ha! - onezerohero  163.8 #2420 6:41PM
^ this. If ignorance is bliss, I'll take it - melissa_ficent  318.6 #739 1:13PM
How about the effect Disneyland has on budding bromances - Villescas8  601.0 #307 5:24PM
Ah.. And do a case study with MWers! - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 5:28PM
πŸ‘ I'm sure you can do like 20 case studies minimum - Villescas8  601.0 #307 5:31PM
Seriously. Like maybe in a guy's family or social circle the Disney love is looked down upon. But MW made it ok to bond over Disney love. - PrincessDuckie  817.0 #204 5:40PM
Ah... The love for Disney that helps create those bromances. I'm thinking I just need to keep a watchful eye out on posts and can easily pick out budding bromances. πŸ˜ƒ - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 5:43PM
Nuthin wrong with me sharin a teacup ride with Donnie.We are discussing our strategy for fantasy football. - madsdad  1847.1 #77 6:43PM
Exactly! - donnievegas  1132.6 #140 6:47PM
Wait...teacups scare me pick another ride. - donnievegas  1132.6 #140 6:53PM
Wheel of death? I'll threaten to run back and forth inside it unless you trade me Aaron Rodgers for Jason Cambell lol. - madsdad  1847.1 #77 6:55PM
Teacups scare you? Lol my toddler loves that ride! Maybe you can discuss fantasy football on the carousel instead. To hear each other better, maybe you can share one horse. πŸ˜ƒ - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 7:28PM
Now you got the arguing part of bromances - Villescas8  601.0 #307 7:32PM
I saw a movie about two men sharing a horse, it didn't end well. - madsdad  1847.1 #77 7:35PM
Perfect. I can see howmtheymresolve their differences. Lol @madsdad, okay separate horses but each wearing a Woody hat. - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 7:39PM
I will wear a woody hat, it's important to have safe rides. - madsdad  1847.1 #77 7:44PM
Hahahahahah - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 8:15PM
That would be interesting. If you don't mind me asking what you are trying to research and ultimately what youre aiming at for your conclusion. I have to start thinking of mine also for my masters project for structural engineering. I would totally incorporate Disney but I think it's a little harder for me lol. I have to find a way!!! Good Luck!πŸ˜ƒπŸ‘ - TikiJOSEsWingman  332.4 #674 3:40PM
What about a current or new attraction? Heck, make up an attraction! - MomWithAJuiceBoxBuzz  1165.7 #135 3:42PM
That is what I'm trying to figure out, so I'm entertaining different thoughts. Ultimately, there will have to be research to back up whatever I choose. I am in a joint counseling program so anything that pertains to people, relationships, school, human nature, addictions... Anything. - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 3:50PM
MWAJBB.. Good idea! Can you do one on an attraction? I was in the wheel of death with some random stranger who was pointing out little structural tidbits that I never would have noticed. - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 3:52PM
Lol. I've always been fascinated with California screeming. If you notice on the helix after the photo is taken the track is essentially on a type of roller system that allows the track to move to reduce the tress on the steel and the foundation. Hmmm. I think I need to do some finite element analysis without getting in trouble with Disney lol - TikiJOSEsWingman  332.4 #674 4:15PM
BTM, I will respond to this comment once I google everything you've just said. πŸ˜„ - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 4:19PM
Haha. I'll be mOre than glad to do a physics/ engineering lesson at the park. I've always wanted to teach and engineering is what I do. - TikiJOSEsWingman  332.4 #674 4:25PM
I'd actually like that! I find learning about different things so interesting! The more you know, the more you grow! /end geek mode. - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 4:31PM
Lol this is true! - TikiJOSEsWingman  332.4 #674 4:48PM
The attraction to disneyland in relationship to people who grew up in an environment where an alcoholic was present (gaurdian). Its actually something I have been learning a lot about very interesting. - wendytink  346.6 #627 3:53PM
Send links! What do you mean? That people who have an unhealthy home environment use Disneyland as an escape? Do uoumthink there are people who use Disneyland as their only escape? Or do you think they have others? - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 4:04PM
I can see this. It's true for me! (dad) I also read about a study in the mid-90's that says those in service industries (all kinds, nurses, tech support, retail, customer service) have an extremely high rate of being a child of a alcoholic or addict. So I did an informal poll (at the time I was doing tech support) with those I knew at work. And every person I talked to had a parent who was an alcoholic. No joke. I guess we just can't stop taking care of people?? - PrincessDuckie  817.0 #204 5:36PM
Is there a higher level of stress associated with those jobs? Maybe I need to look into unhealthy vs healthy coping mechanisms... And turn is more towards a project. - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 5:41PM
What about the relation between Disney and ones memory. Some people remember going to DL as a small child but dont remember other tid bits of their child hood. How the positive, magical events affect ones memory. ??? - MomWithAJuiceBoxBuzz  1165.7 #135 3:58PM
Oooh I learned about this is my undergrad cognitive behavior class! DL can be a powerful trigger. Couple that with the sights and scents of it all, and you have strong memories coming back! Good one MWAJBB! - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 4:06PM
If you want to get techy, you can talk about the colors, music, sounds, smiles, and all the attributes to the park that promote positive vibes and atmosphere. - ScubaSteve028  835.7 #198 3:58PM
This! It's a 5 sence experience for sure! I'm SO addicted! - Duchess_SMK  5986.3 #15 4:03PM
*sense - Duchess_SMK  5986.3 #15 4:03PM
I would need to do specific research on each sense, but that could lead to using DL as an example. πŸ˜ƒ - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 4:08PM
Oh duchess, if I lean towards DL addicts, I know where to go! - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 4:09PM
::points to self:: :D - Duchess_SMK  5986.3 #15 4:15PM
Or you can Talk about how Mousewait Has impacted the lives of many people. All the friendships it has built and how it has made Disneyland a better experience. - PrinceTeaJack  923.7 #177 4:17PM
Excellent idea as well! - Duchess_SMK  5986.3 #15 4:18PM
Yeah , I have never had so much drama in my life...hahahaha. So much popcorn that I have eaten from reading all the drama. - VfxGenie  1548.8 #94 4:20PM
We're social creatures, so it makes sense that social networking would further enhance an already great experience! - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 4:21PM
Hahaha oh genie, that is a completely different twist... The negative side of social networking! Haha.. And how people are drawn to drama. - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 4:23PM
also lets you avoid people at the parks..hahahaha - VfxGenie  1548.8 #94 4:24PM
Way to ruin a heartfelt Idea Genie! SMH! - PrinceTeaJack  923.7 #177 4:31PM
That was mean Genie! - Duchess_SMK  5986.3 #15 4:45PM
what..hahahaha. I'm sowwy dutchess! Walks away in shame! - VfxGenie  1548.8 #94 5:00PM
Yeah! Timeout for 10mins! Then come back! - Duchess_SMK  5986.3 #15 5:09PM
Chains! Chains! Bring out the chains! Lol - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 5:21PM
I love where this is going. I know myself and others would love to read it after its complete. Is that a possibility? - dpaz310  36.1 #5094 6:48PM
Yes, of course. I am not sure if I can fit Disneyland into it, but if I can I am more than happy to share! It won't be ready for another year, as I am in my final year of grad school. 😊 - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 7:26PM
Maybe consider doing it on Walt Disney himself and how he constructed his park. Based on some pieces I have read I would think Walt may have been OCD or something along those lines. - aidensmama  340.1 #647 7:42PM
I'd have to link it to how forms of OCD can contribute to success? Research other ppl with OCD as well..? It has to be something that people, or people with OCD, can benefit. I didn't realize he had OCD. That's very interesting! Thank you! - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 8:54PM
Idk if he had OCD but based on what people have written it sounds like something was up with him. I think many if not most successful people are a bit nutty. - aidensmama  340.1 #647 8:56PM
Lol I'll add "nutty" as a formal description! Haha - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 9:11PM
I know it's been done before, but I'd diagnose all the characters in The Hundred Acre Wood. You can show how varying diagnoses can live and work together. That would be my topic if I I could do my Master's thesis all over again. Another interesting one would be how children view family dynamics in relation to how family is presented in Disney films, i.e. lots of single families in Disney films. - icedevil31  269.8 #1090 9:04PM
Oh...my...garsh. I love this idea!!!!!! I could do a thesis project on this dedicated to helping children understand their (or their parent's) diagnosis!! - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 9:13PM
When I do therapy with kids I often use the Winnie the Pooh characters as examples for the kids and parents. - icedevil31  269.8 #1090 9:22PM
The idea of using this to help children understand their condition touched my heart. - aidensmama  340.1 #647 9:31PM
And you also teach kids that even though you've been diagnosed with a condition you can still function within society. Rabbit has his OCD tendencies, but can still be friends with a manic Tigger or a depressed Eeyore. Even a single mom like Kanga can make it in the Hundred Acre Wood with the support of friends. - icedevil31  269.8 #1090 9:37PM
That would be interesting to take a look at how Disney films/characters can positively influence social and cognitive development in children and even help them with their treatments. You hear so much about the princesses and how they give young girls unrealistic expectations about life, but kids can really learn a lot from these stories. What a great idea! - Spoonful_O_Sugar  585.1 #317 9:49PM
Icedevil, I would like to know more about what you do and ideas that has helped. I will be starting an internship this year and I would love some techniques and things you have learned along the way.. That is, if you don't mind. My first two years of grad school was focused on school counseling so this part of ,my program is new to me. - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 9:53PM
I think it's a wonderful idea. Sometimes children are overlooked because they are so young, but not knowing (I think) causes more confusion. I would love to break things down into kid terminology to help them better understand! Ugh but if it has been done several times, I can't do it for a thesis... But i can definitely use it practice! - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 9:56PM
I'd be happy to share some of the tricks I've picked up the last 11-years. I'm actually taking my doctoral comps examination next week and I'm kinda bogged down, but if you send me your email I can get back to you in a week or so. - icedevil31  269.8 #1090 12:53PM
This thread gives me the heebie jeebies.  I wrote my thesis last summer, and it's nothing I'd care to revisit anytime soon.  *shudder* - susieQzee  555.7 #333 9:53PM
Oh, but good luck to you on yours! :) - susieQzee  555.7 #333 9:53PM
Haha thank you! Was it that painful? What was yours on? I'm not looking forward to this either. - FindMeAtTheCove  237.4 #1422 10:10PM
My masters degree is in multicultural education, and I wrote my thesis on the effects of increased elementary class sizes on mainstreamed Autistic students. There were tears of frustration involved, and I nearly quit because of it (but I didn't!). Sources and citations up the ying-yang, and then more of the same to back up your research, and then even MORE of it to validate. You end up saying the same thing 6832978562968923 times, only reworded each time. It was assigned and due in one month (last June, National Univ.), so there was no time to take a break to get away from it. I was the best feeling in the world when I finished it, but for the whole month, I was unsure that day would ever come. - susieQzee  555.7 #333 2:41PM

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What is dance the magic?? - bks4lou  183.6 #2118 4:40PM
Dance studios sign up and dancers come and do a little "pre-parade" along the route. It's cute ;) - TinkerSchelle  1522.6 #98 1:05PM
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6. Lolabell4
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Yay @@Moog!!!! So great!  πŸ˜ - valj84DisneyAddict  133.0 #2887 6:28PM
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10. debbiev
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DISCOUNTED DISNEYLAND TICKETS THROUGH MOUSEWAIT! You get 2% off select tickets if you purchase on this page and use the code MOUSEWAIT at checkout. A percentage of your total purchase comes back to MouseWait, which helps cover our monthly maintenance and development expenses! You will also get 100 Credits if you email us your receipt along with your username! 


Read Episode One of Deadliest Cast Member FREE on Amazon and iTunes!

I downloaded this before a very long road trip, and it kept me entertained the whole time (well, except when I was taking my turn at the wheel, safety first!).  - Geekery  409.4 #497 10:21PM
Thanks! I'm glad you liked it! - Admin  10:46AM
Where can I find the book please?  - sarahsanch  6.8 #13069 1:03PM
Just got it! Can't stop reading it. I am already starting chaper 16. Love how all the details of DL are woven into the story. - Tiggerific  337.6 #657 4:20PM
Glad you like it! Season Two is coming in a few weeks! - Admin  11:52PM
We want photos!!! - hawaiichick52  190.7 #2018 2:26PM
what is this - perijoy  2.2 #0 1:58PM
A digital book. And since free is always good. You should go check out the free first episode on Amazon - philliprocks  1112.4 #146 10:45PM

Here are the top 10 News Contributors:

1. BaseballMickey_CM
6964

2. Stitch_Legacy
5117.21

3. RickChavez
3478.48

4. ScooterMike
1962.99

5. SPandEvLover
3600.44

6. caramiapoohAKAface
3658.88

7. IDVandalSkipperCM
2357.52

8. Dave
12654.8

9. Duchess_SMK
5986.26

10. Sweet_Irish_Cream
4394.27



SEE TOP 50 NEWS CONTRIBUTORS



 
MONTHLY WAIT TIME LEADERS REAL-TIME: Thank you to everyone who enters accurate wait times--you earn MouseRank Points, Credits, worldwide fame, and wealth beyond your wildest dreams when you enter wait times at the Park (ok maybe not the last two things). Please remember to ONLY enter wait times that you have verified in person, this improves our algorithm substantially, thanks!

1. MelodyMouse
640.08

2. Tom
189.97

3. MadameLeota
189.67

4. jacdanfan
144.72

5. Psychguy
142.72

6. goofygal
136.68

7. WARLOCK
107.77

8.
106.83

9. bryanschultz1
84.22

10. redsoxcarlos
78.58

 

SEE THE TOP 100

@MelodyMouse! You are amazing! Wow wow wow!    - secretagentangel  1506.1 #99 5:00PM


 
Deadliest Cast Member SEASON TWO is here! Find out what really happened on Disneyland's 50th Anniversary. Twenty-four hours or real-time action, authentic Disneyland history, and a finale that you'll never forget. EVENTS OCCUR IN REAL TIME. Download it to any device from Amazon here.

Will there be a Season 3??  Please??? - YoPirate  418.7 #484 8:03PM
I bought the paper copy for myself and 2 copies of season one for christmas gifts!  LOVE THIS BOOK!!! - snitsos  26.8 #5809 5:28PM
Thank you snitsos for your support, glad you liked Season Two! - Admin  12:13AM
Thank you for your support glad you liked Season Two! snitsos - Admin  12:15AM
Test - Admin  12:16AM
- valj84DisneyAddict  133.0 #2887 11:51AM
I now have both seasons on my Kindle!!!!  LOVE them!!!!  I also have both of the Voyagers!  So great!!!!!      - valj84DisneyAddict  133.0 #2887 10:57AM

Subscribe to the MouseWait Email NEWSletter for Disneyland and MouseWait news, and never miss an update! 

Nice pic!πŸ“· - Stitchcrazy62622  13.3 #8345 10:18PM

Here are the Top 10 MouseWaiters of All-Time:

1. Coaster
15405

2. Dave
12654.8

3. Plumiegirl
8802.1

4. Tom
8770.34

5. jacdanfan
8637.09

6. goofygal
8396.46

7. uscdisneyteacher
7513.46

8. CobbPR
7053.31

9. BaseballMickey_CM
6964

10. Bullseye
6765.71



DISNEYLAND PARK:

Peter Pan closed through July 1
Innoventions closed March 31-September 30


DISNEY CALIFORNIA ADVENTURE:

Luigi's Flying Tires closed through Dec 1
 

Were visiting during the diamond celebration.  I'm so excited because all of our favorite rides will be open! - Dsc1983  16.2 #7483 10:53PM
Awesome! Can't wait! - PrincessDaisy  307.7 #802 8:33AM
Decembr 1st is the apprentice's birthday and we aren't doing an overnight this year. Ugh, let there be a special preview opening. - Lelundrial  560.2 #331 3:23PM
What are they doing with innoventions? - blubecca7  12.9 #8533 5:07PM

Thanked by:   Tom   carminaire   kimdis   36 More Thanks ebugsmama   JanAriel   JazzyJade808  
Download VOYAGEERS to your device today! Discover the VOYAGEERS Society, and the magical Main Street Realm in this action packed adventure for kids of ALL ages! Also available on iBooks and Kobo. Follow the VOYAGEERS on Facebook for more info and behind the scenes exclusives.

Like normal I am late to the party. Reading it now - Tealtownfan  1015.5 #167 3:13PM
Got it! More than halfway thru it! It's a lot of fun!!!πŸ‘πŸ‘βœ¨βœ¨ - TinkerSchelle  1522.6 #98 10:53PM
- conant4  14.3 #8021 11:51AM
There are 100's of people standing at bag check. Lines backed up to La Brea Bakery. They've stopped people here to herd over people already in DCA over to DL. And, we see 100's of those folks standing at the gates.  - thompsonsyl  5.2 #16701 2:36AM


 
My first software project launched in 2003 as an experiment in online productivity. TIMEJAR was one of the first online/mobile time management systems with thousands of users including Fortune 500 companies, small businesses, and families. In 2015, we completely rebuilt the TIMEJAR time management system and made it free for everyone to use on their desktop and iOS. Seize control of your todos and accomplish the impossible today!

Yes it is!! Love you Disney!!!! - TikiPrincess  0.1 #0 9:00AM
I downloaded this a few months ago and love it ! Hope to use it more in the future too!  - secretagentangel  1506.1 #99 5:28PM
TimeJar! ✨ - TinkerSchelle  1522.6 #98 2:46AM
Yes it is Walt, thank you for making yours and our Dreams Come True!  - merprincess67  5.0 #17298 6:55AM

Get 100 Credits for staying at the Hojo Anaheim! Just fill out this form and we'll get the Credits added to your account. When you stay at the Hojo, you help us continue to improve MouseWait. Call their in house reservation number and remember to mention MouseWait--you will love everything about the Hojo!

Credits have been applied to everyone's account as of today! - Admin 11:40AM
I just called them to price out our potential trip in June. Chris was so nice and the MW savings are phenomenal! Still waiting on work vacation approval to reserve the room!  - HNL2SFO  205.4 #1844 1:26PM
What percentage saving are we looking at for being MouseWaiters? Is it better than a AAA discount.  - MoChuck  52.0 #4426 3:57PM
- Fantasmicfan1  1270.0 #118 10:49AM
- valj84DisneyAddict  133.0 #2887 10:32AM


 
MONTHLY OVERALL REAL-TIME LEADERBOARD

1. MelodyMouse
676.33

2. Winnie111286
331.3

3. Tom
281.15

4. MadameLeota
205.06

5. Plumiegirl
194.06

6. jacdanfan
189.49

7. Dave
172.45

8. richiii3
152.8

9. goofygal
147.85

10. HARR_E
146.31



SEE TOP 100 LEADERS

Of course, this is actually for the merry, merry month of May, I believe.  - MelodyMouse  4696.4 #21 3:41PM
Of course. Since I have only been here in May and I am on the list. - MisterRandom  321.8 #726 8:26AM

Here are the upcoming MouseWait Events. You can post your event on mobile here, and on the web here. Thanks!

1. Michael belated bay celebration
May 26, 2015 06:00pm

2. Lake Tahoe Summer Meetup
Aug 01, 2015 09:30am


We have our weekly MW sticker meetup at La Brea bakery at 8 pm in Downtown Disney! Lots of fun for newcomers and all and a great way to meet new people! - secretagentangel  1506.1 #99 6:10PM
On Tuesday nights, duh!!!πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜© - secretagentangel  1506.1 #99 10:47PM
I'm gonna have a crowding meetup Presidents' Day weekend! Post to come!  - TinkerSchelle  1522.6 #98 5:42PM
I'll crowd with you  - LaPearleNoir  1526.2 #96 2:27PM
I ❀️ crowding meetups - bonedaddy909  1278.0 #117 12:29PM
Would love to come! - susanann  8.9 #10676 6:15PM
What day works best for you guys bonedaddy909 and susanann and LaPearleNoir? - TinkerSchelle  1522.6 #98 1:21PM
Any day Friday theough Monday works for me! - susanann  8.9 #10676 2:12PM
Friday thru Sunday for UsπŸ˜ƒ.....Wait a minute😳what the heck is a crowding meetup and what would we be crowding into??πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ - bonedaddy909  1278.0 #117 7:09PM
I heard there's a cool Winchester Mystery House meetup 😬 - adventurerEnDisneylandia {AED}  896.4 #181 7:17PM
Any MW Tinkerbell half marathon weekend runners interested in a photo op meet-up/s before one or all 3 of the races??Β  - Romec123aKaSmartyPants  681.0 #253 2:11PM
When is this race? - secretagentangel  1506.1 #99 6:15PM
The 5K is May 8th, 10K May 9th, and the Half is May 10th. - CoachDisney  66.6 #4054 2:43PM
I will for the 5k, will be there Thursday afternoon till Friday noon. - Sleepingbeautysmom  304.3 #821 8:17AM

Easily manage the social side of MouseWait for Disneyland and Disney World with our new mousetopia app for iOS. Post to the DL or WDW side, use your Stickers, and utilize our new MouseWait Messenger. Optimized for iOS 8 and the iPhone 6! See what's new here


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6.caramiapoohAKAface 77.48 #32  
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8.LaPearleNoir 71.02 #97  
9.Maddernhorn 69.44 #239  
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